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In-depth comparison of the M1A2 and T-80U MBT's

In-depth comparison of the M1A2 and T-80U MBT's
Quick note for those who browse both the forums and the reddit: this will be/is posted on both sites to get the opinions of both groups because I and others have noticed that each site has its own kind of audience.
My favorite kinds of warthunder posts are those comparing 2 or more tanks (specifically at the same br). However I often desire just a bit more details and testing than is often provided in such posts. Therefore I decided to do it myself for what are probably my favorite tanks in the game to play: the T-80U and M1A2 Abrams ( https://thunderskill.com/en/stat/Ariesv if you don't believe me). I want to review and compare both tanks in the context of the tank design pyramid: protection, firepower, and mobility.

Protection

My review of both tanks' protection will be based on the following three aspects: how hard the tank is to hit, the kind of armor and weak spots that matter if it is hit, and how likely the tank is to survive if it does get penetrated. To assist in this I created my own penetration diagram for the front and sides of both tanks using dm33 as the test shot (pardon my image editing skill). I will start by considering the front.
White areas are where armor blocks the shot. Green areas represent non-critical pens: basically if the ability to shoot back is unaffected and you are only losing 1 crew at most. Orange areas are critical pens: losing 2 or more crew or the ability to return fire is knocked out. Red areas are roughly where you can be consistently one shot (basically guaranteed). Red areas are found based on the crew layout and the most likely ammo rack layouts: Half ammo in the abrams and only the carousel in the T-80U.

https://preview.redd.it/evdih1s8avt41.png?width=954&format=png&auto=webp&s=342b68c1c4a58fca8cb146bf2f6b002ba321d1c0

https://preview.redd.it/9b9h7wo9avt41.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=08ae86e98e21e66ef6d775cd18b7531769b7dde9
First I will confirm that these images are to rough scale with the following dimension stats. The dimensions are given first in meters (taken from wikipedia), then in inches (taken from my monitor with a tape measure), the corresponding ratios for each set of measurements are also then given.
Some of my display measurements are thrown off because of the width’s parallax (notice how the tracks slope into hull a bit); I could have done a top down for width but I decided against it because the area of each of the armor pieces on the diagram will have the parallax affecting it and it isn’t worth trying to calculate it out. Either way; everything based on these measurements will probably have an error of +/- around 10% of its value.
Height:
T-80U: 2.2m/8"
M1A2: 2.44m/9"
A/T HR: 1.11/1.125

Width:
T-80U: 3.6m/15"
M1A2: 3.66m/16.5"
A/T WR: 1.02/1.1

Frontal Area Ratio:
T-80U: 3.6m*2.2m/15”*8” = 7.92m^2/120”^2
M1A2: 3.66m*2.44m/16.5”*9” = 8.93m^2/148.5”^2
A/T FAR: 1.13/1.24

Turret Area Ratio (only in inches, but based on the same images as above):
T-80U: 11.75*3 = 26.9
M1A2: 12.25*3.25 = 39.8
A/T TAR: 1.48
It can easily be seen that the T-80U pulls ahead in both size and armor profile. Its total profile is about 15% smaller in cross section than the Abrams. Its turret is even smaller in comparison to that of the Abrams, by around 40-50%. This makes a difference in both where you can hide on maps and how likely you are to be noticed when you go hull down (this helps even against thermals; I’ve noticed T-80 turrets are more likely to blend into the background noise because of their size).
Consider now the trunk of each tank (the rectangle of the same width as and starting at the bottom of the LFP going up to the top of the turret). Only 37% of the T-80U’s trunk have some sort of weakspot compared to the M1A2 which has 69% of its trunk covered in weak spots (green areas aren’t counted). If you factor in the size difference, the total size of the T-80U’s weakspots are about ½ as big as those of the abrams. Additionally, the T-80U’s weakspots are seperated by its UFP making the size of each individual grouping closer to ¼ the size of the Abrams singular weak spot (i.e. everything but the turret cheeks). The difference in weak spot size gets even more exaggerated the further the range of the shot. In addition, having ⅔ of its frontal arc covered by near-impenetrable armor makes low-visibility shots by enemy tanks (caused by smoke, night, dust, etc.) much more likely to be blocked whereas the Abrams is likely to suffer more damage. That said, the Abrams is the more survivable by far if it gets hit by a single penetrating shot. It is likely to lose 2 crew or its gun no matter where it is hit in the hull or mantlet (some of the orange area can one shot the tank, but it isn’t consistent enough for my liking) with only a small area on the LFP guaranteeing a oneshot frontally (that square is roughly 0.6% of the trunk). Conversely, close to half the frontal weak spot area on the T-80U is likely to one-shot the tank (~15% of the trunk).
I think there is a much greater balance between the armor of the T-80U and the survivability of the Abrams than most people think. Consider the common brawling scenario in any urban map where both tanks’ hulls are exposed and facing eachother frontally (hull down situations will be considered later). Most shots on the Abrams will kill 2 crew. Therefore on average the Abrams will survive 2 shots. Even if you assume that the T-80U can’t survive a single penetrating hit, all it needs to do to match the Abram’s vaunted survivability is block on average a single shot with its armor: a single shot. Still further, the Abrams ability to survive shots degrades rapidly after the first pen. Conversely the T-80U has the potential (against its most common foes) to survive unlimited shots if they hit the armor (this idea of all or nothing is something of a theme of this tank). I once brawled against both a Strv 122 and Leo 2a5 on Berlin for an extended period of time in my T-80U; all the while taking multiple shots on my hull because of my movement and the decent amount of distance combined with dust thrown up by artillery. The Abrams would not have survived for half as long as the T-80U in such a scenario. In addition to this specific situation, my T-80U has survived many shots rounding corners that my Abrams would have been crippled by.
Now I will present both tanks in a hull down situation (it doesn’t matter whether or not the tank in question can shoot back, depression is covered in the firepower section). The mantlet weak spot of the T-80U covers 15% of its turret as opposed to 13% on the Abrams (accounting for errors and rounding, they are probably the same proportion). However due to the overall size difference, the Abrams mantlet weak spot is 1.5 times larger than that of the T-80U. Giving the T-80U a serious advantage in taking shots while hull down.
Let's move on to the sides of both tanks.

https://preview.redd.it/u3clmypcavt41.png?width=1670&format=png&auto=webp&s=860db2c1a1c64e7ad10c5b846f491437f759938c

Note: the turret side immediately behind the gun should be white
To the surprise of no one, the T-80U can be one shot anywhere in the central hull whereas the Abrams is likely to only suffer critical damage. On both tanks, the critical areas cover about 20-25% of the side of the tank, with the rest covered by armor or non-critical areas (engines and driver). Even though the Abrams is likely to survive a shot to the central hull (if it hasn’t suffered previous crew loss that is) it is very likely to lose some combination of tracks and firepower; thus leaving it open to a second kill shot that it won’t be able to respond to. Still, if you are planning on getting shot in the side, the Abrams is a good tank to do it in.
Both tanks in my experience have very similar survivability when angled or from the back. Crews or ammo or both are lined up perfectly behind a tempting shot at the corner closest to the shooter. Specifically in the T-80U’s case (the Abrams is already a giant weak spot) you are giving up your armor coverage. Do not angle these tanks or get shot from behind.
Finally both tanks have similar extra survivability features but the Abrams often has the better version. Both get two launches of smoke grenades with the Abrams having a tad better coverage. Both use fuel tanks to absorb shrapnel from incoming shells with the Abram’s being armored (I think this prevents their potential detonation from killing your tank). Comically, if the ammo doesn’t detonate in the T-80U (which you notice alot more because its ammo is hit so often) the ammo carousel can also block shrapnel from shells from hitting the crew in the turret. Finally the Abram’s ammo is stored in a blowout rack in the turret. This can (heavy emphasis on can) save you, but it reduces you to 1 shell that you have to use to get you to a friendly cap point to reload.

Mobility

This section surprised me with just how superior the T-80U is in mobility to the M1A2 Abrams. Starting with the stat card stuff, the T-80U has a 10% higher HP/ton ratio with 27.2 as opposed to 24.6. The M1A2 has both higher horsepower and weight, making it a better pusher. The T-80U is a touch faster at 69 km/h as opposed to the Abrams 67km/h. In my experience driving both this often translates to a higher “cruising” speed for the T-80U. I tested both tanks in test drive and found the T-80U reached and sustained a speed of 54 km/h whereas the M1A2 was only able to manage 49 km/h. It's not a huge difference, but when combined with the T-80U’s superior acceleration you definitely notice it as you outpace the M1A2’s at the start of the battle. Backward speeds when tested matched their theoretical maxes, 10km/h and 40km/h for the T-80U and M1A2 respectively. It is alot of fun to rush into a situation as the M1A2 and rush out at close to the same speed but backwards. This specific quirk of mobility helps to cover somewhat for the M1A2’s lack of hull armor. However this is the only place where the M1A2 beats the T-80U in mobility. I did the following maneuvers in both tanks and recorded the results (each of the 3 numbers in the brackets are the times or speeds recorded for 3 trials, the final result is determined by averaging them).
360 deg hull traverse:
T-80U: [9.62 / 9.35 / 9.34] -> 9.44s ~= 38.14 deg/s non-neutral
M1A2: [17.55 / 17.38 / 17.02] -> 17.32s ~= 20.79 deg/s neutral
A/T HTTR: 20.79/38.14 = 0.55 (ratio)
The Abrams may have neutral steering but it is still far slower turning than the T-80U is. I have rarely been in a situation where neutral steering would have or did save me. You get used to doing things the T-80U’s way very quickly. This specific test will come up again in the firepower section.
(edit: the M1a2's neutral traverse has since been corrected and it now has a hull traverse roughly as fast as the T-80U; AFAIK the other tests are still correct)

180 deg turn at top speed:
T-80U: [2.65s / 2.81s / 3.07s] -> 2.84s ~= 63.38 deg/s
M1A2: [4.43s / 4.46s / 4.53s] -> 4.47s ~= 40.27 deg/s; gets stuck into neutral turn near end
A/T FTSR: (40.27)/(63.38) = 0.64 (ratio)
This is sort of the high-speed equivalent test to the previous one. The Abrams makes up the relative difference somewhat but it is still slower to completely change direction than the T-80U. The Abrams could turn even faster, but the sudden slowing can make the tank try to make a neutral turn right near the end; which slows it even more. Not the most crucial maneuver in combat but together with the next test it displays both tanks high speed maneuverability quite well.

90 deg turn at top speed energy retention:
T-80U: [37km/h / 32km/h / 32km/h] -> 34 km/h; 34/54 = 63% speed retained;
M1A2: [26km/h / 24km/h / 24km/h] -> 25 km/h; 25/49 = 51% speed retained;
A/T ERR: 0.81 (ratio)
This is probably the better of the last two tests for determining maneuverability. I simply took both tanks up to top speed and made a 90 deg turn. Both tanks were quite prone to over turn if I wasn’t careful, but probably the T-80U more so (I do know that it is much more prone to drift if you go much faster). In the end, the T-80U was moving noticeably faster after completing the turn than the Abrams was.
In the end I find the T-80U the more mobile of the two tanks. The Abrams backward speed is fine for retreats, but given that both tanks often pop smoke to cover retreats the T-80U can often (in many situations but perhaps not most) back up a bit, turn around and run off at faster speed and easier control. This I think degrades this one pro of the Abrams enough that I think the T-80U is the superior mover.

Firepower

This area is one of the Abram’s advantages over the T-80U; but not enough to make the Abrams a superior tank. Starting with basic stats, the M1A2 has superior turret rotation and elevation speeds: 40 deg/s and 24 deg/s respectively vs. the T-80U’s 24 deg/s and 4.4 deg/s. It also has better gun depression and elevation: 10 deg and 20 deg respectively vs. the T-80U’s 6 deg and 15 deg. This is the area where hull traverse can matter in the T-80U’s favor. Theoretically the T-80U if it turns both its gun and hull it can traverse its turret at ~62 deg/s (if the Abrams does this it only gets to ~61 deg/s). The reasons to do this are strong: your gun turns faster and your armor follows it. This doesn’t help in all situations (if your driver or engine is out), but it does cover enough to make the Abrams advantage not quite so overbearing. Finally, if the enemy is behind and takes out your engine neither tank has an advantage because the Abrams gun elevates over the engine deck and the T-80U’s turret doesn’t turn fast enough.
Reload speeds for both tanks are very close: the T-80U has a 6.5s autoloader stock and the Abrams has 6s human loader once aced. While the Abrams ostensibly can have a faster reload I do not find this much of an advantage. If the Abrams loses 2 crew (a very common occurrence) its reload will shoot up to 10+ seconds. Similarly if the loader is shot while reloading, not only will the reload time increase, but it will also reset to start from 0. Conversely, the autoloader on the T-80U will reload a shell in 6.5 every single time you fire no matter fire extinguishing or module damage right up until the point you actually die.
The comparison of top ammo is below. M829 is extremely easy to use and will pen most of what you shoot at. In contrast Mangos bounce much more often then I would like due to having to fit in the autoloader. This is a strong point in the Abrams favor.
Top Ammo Pen @ 500m; 0deg/30deg/60deg:
T-80U: 470/407/244; 0 deg norm; 1700m/s
M1A2: 481/417/278; 1.5 deg norm; 1670m/s
As for additional ammo types, the T-80U has a better selection with stock apfs-ds, ATGM’s, and HE-FS. I don’t find this much of an advantage however as each shell has a very niche application (though dinking Strv 122’s in the turret with HE is a joy unto itself when it happens). Meanwhile the Abrams has a proxy-fused HEAT-FS shell that makes shooting down helicopters very easy when they get in range (as opposed to trying to get them with a T-80U atgm). Thus ammo is roughly balanced for both.
Finally, there is the FCS of both tanks. The Abrams gets 2nd gen thermals for commander, gunner, and driver. Bino and gun thermals are self-explanatory in their usefulness. Bino thermals in particular help alleviate some of the disadvantages of the Abrams turret protection, but I rarely spot a target with bino thermals that I wouldn’t have without them. However their utility as a movement-less (i.e. stealthy) way to scan is quite nice Driver thermals can be useful if you want to scan a large area fast, the resolution isn’t the greatest and you have to do a bit more key fenangling to get your gun pointed where you want, but it does have a use in making you more aware of your surroundings. With its multiple high-def thermals I always feel like I know what is happening around me better than in the T-80U; which is a good feeling. Conversely, the T-80U gets only 1st gen gunner thermals. This is perfectly adequate but I have missed shots due to the low resolution. Also you have to rotate your turret to scan, which is a pain and produces movement for enemies to spot. Both tanks get a laser rangefinder and their gunner optics are very similar with the T-80U’s ever so slightly better at x2.7 to x12 magnification compared to the Abrams x3 to x10. However the total field of view of the abrams is ever so slightly larger at 24-7 vs. the T-80U’s 27-6.
All things considered, the Abrams has better fire power and control than the T-80U.
(edit: M1A2's thermals are getting downgraded to first gen in 1.97)

Conclusion

Overall I find the T-80 to have a low to mid advantage in protection: the ability to tank near unlimited shells can be very powerful, but one shot and you are more often done. I once read someone comment that in Warthunder, the Abrams always has a second chance. I would agree but also amend this by saying that its second chance is oftentimes a much worse one than its first. Conversely the T-80U will operate at full capability until it dies and if you play it well enough that “until” can often last more than the Abram’s second chance and the second chance’s of all the Abrams you kill after that one.
Perhaps the other Abrams move better, but the M1A2 is a fast brick. You really feel this whenever you try to turn in it. Comparatively the T-80U just speeds over the battlefield without much trouble. Only time the roles are reversed is when both try moving backwards; but the T-80U is probably better off popping smoke and turning around anyways. The M1A2 can move adequately, but the T-80U is the more mobile tank and it shows.
Nothing makes me more excited for full FCS to be added to tanks than the M1A2 Abrams. Its firepower is already better than the T-80U and I think FCS will widen this advantage. M829 pens just about everything you would expect and the proxy heat-fs is great against helis. You simply feel like you can see the battlefield so much better with its thermals compared to the T-80U; which feels as cramped as its crew by comparison.
Here is how I would rate each on a scale of 1-3 on the design pyramid.

Definitely different than how I last rated them
(With the neutral traverse change described above I would bump up the Abrams's score in Mobility by 0.5)
If you read all of this, thanks! I have been wanting to make something like this for a while because I feel folks unfairly discount the T-80U because it doesn’t use the exact same playstyle as effectively as the NATO MBT’s. My theory on why its win rates weren't the best for a while was that good players were told that it was a bad tank and that they were better off playing Germany or the US. Combine this with a lack of CAS and eventually USSR isn’t doing so hot. However when the KA-50 (and 52) was added, good players left the US to play USSR and Germany and get some relief from the everlasting bombardment. Enough of these seem to have stayed (look at player numbers for Tier 7 USSR, T-80U is most played MBT nowadays) that USSR winrates have gone up. Don’t have much proof for any of this beyond just looking at what thunderskill and gaijin is doing (I find it telling that gaijin gave USSR CAS instead of the T-90 to help the USSR out; perhaps they have more info on what’s going on then we do?).
Happy to discuss any of my conclusions or testing.
submitted by Aries_the_Fifth to Warthunder

iama survey

you know the deal. everything was completely arbitrary.

name

everyone put their name. -1 to bnavis for "george soros" because that is not his name

hello this is a question (it is important that you answer this correctly)

Option 2 was correct. +1 to rose and cory. -1 to jamie, bnavis, kuhan, and pole for selecting "none of the above" which by definition excludes option 2. everyone else stands pat.

How has your day been?

Jamie:
bad then ok then i went to taco bell and got 2 free doritos locos taco then bad again
I hope your day improves but I am happy for you that you got free tacos
pjd:
Its been a solid day. Work has been quick and im making chicken alredo for dinner. I see it as a win
nice
bnavis:
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
patpat
rose:
good. spent some time with my mom and my sister, went to target, had a good lunch and a coffee.
that sounds like a refreshing day.
pole:
fine
just fine? i hope that a) you meant that in the sense that your day has been damn fine so far; b) alternatively, I hope you have a better rest of your day.
ruairi:
I just woke up so it's been solid
filled out at 17:44:57. this man values his beauty sleep.
kuhan:
Today was fine. Yesterday, the Cardinals declined Kolten Wong's option so that sucked.
must have been a double whammy when cory also did it
cory:
Pretty chill so far! Woke up with no alarm clock today (and Nerys didn't wake me up a 5:45am to be fed), got a slow start to the morning, made a nice bagel sando for brunch, and am now taking care of chores/tasks.
sounds like a chill and productive day.
Everyone gets 1.

Balls

This was self explanatory. You got the number of balls you selected.
1 ball: pjd, ruairi, kuhan, cory
0.5 ball: pole
0 balls: jamie,
-0.5 balls: rose
-1 balls: bnavis

I couldn't think of a good question for this one, sorry.

https://imgur.com/RsDSkyr
Detecting some real ambivalence here, guys. Nobody gets points on this one. I hope for more enthusiasm next time.

Bulbasaur is the best starter.

https://imgur.com/OZiLdrX
You guys all nailed this one. Very proud of this group. Everyone gets 1.

please tell me what your favorite album (musical) of all time is (and why you enjoy it so much). I will add it to my to-listen list.

I have added these to my list and will report back.
jamie:
the la la land soundtrack is quite the banger
:jamieminionnoted:
Pjd:
"Hybrid Theory by Linkin Park First album i listened to and got me hooked on music. Linkin Park has been my favorite band forever and that album got me through some rough times.
Solid album! Crawling is a great song. I haven't listened in years so it will be good to revisit.
bnavis:
listen to My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy by kanye. it's his magnum opus. compelling lyrics, incredible production, one of the best pieces of work in the '10s
honestly, i probably should be crossing this off my list considering the great reputation it has.
rose:
"69 Love Songs by The Magnetic Fields. one of the all time great marvels of songwriting. it IS a novelty, but being a novelty that is so completely and skillfully committed to is what makes it so great. it's a spectacle, it's a joke, it's a commentary on itself, and it's a triumph.
in theory it's an album about love, in practice it's an album about love songs, and even deeper it's just an album about songwriting. it's listening to a creative mind set out on a stupid task and seeing what happens.
it's obviously dense, and can't really be fully taken in in one 3 hour listen. but even just picking out a random song in the middle, listening on shuffle, listening to disc 2 or disc 3 alone, what makes it a masterpiece is how many tracks stand out as perfectly put together stripped from the context of the marathon album. the 40th or 50th best song still justifies its existence when you single it out.
i love the enthusiasm in this writeup. it looks like this will be quite the endeavor but this does seem interesting. it may take me a little longer but i will deliver.
pole:
maybe not an album but this performance of Messiah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH3T6YwwU9s
Still counts!
see answer to rose. minus the enthusiasm bit but i am sure i will enjoy this
Ruairi
Meme Answer: Kid Cudi's Man on the Moon (I do love the album, but it is not my favorite). Real Answer: Jon Bellion's The Definition. The main reason is because of the time in my life when I heard the album. It was my freshman year of college close to Thanksgiving time and my ex introduced me to Jon Bellion. I instantly was like oh yea this is my shit. Fell in love with the album and listened to it a lot for a while. It reminds me of Christmas time that year when I went home to Temekilla and would just drive around listening to it.
man on the moon is indeed a good album. neat writeup. i think those albums that take you back to a time and place are often the most meaningful.
kuhan:
This is a toughie but I'm gonna say Commit This to Memory by Motion City Soundtrack. It's just a great pop punk album and they're my favorite band. Also dope synths. Honorable mention to Emotion by Carly Rae Jepsen
I will check both of them out
cory germs:
"Honestly it's gotta be Crack the Skye. I already talked a lot of about it in LC, so I'll just copy/paste my writeup here.
This is a concept album, and the concept is pretty fuckin wild, so strap in: a paraplegic, who feels trapped in his body, learns how to astral project. During his travels, he flies too close to the sun, causing his umbilical cord to burn off. Untethered, swirling wildly through time and space, he gets sucked into a wormhole, and lands in the body of Rasputin in Tsarist Russia. After a failed attempt to usurp the Tsar, Rasputin is murdered, sending both Rasputin's and the boy's souls back the æther, before Rasputin finally helps guide the boy's soul back to his body. Beyond the concept, this album also carries lots of personal meaning for Mastodon's drummer Brann - it is named after his sister, Skye, who committed suicide when they were teenagers. Personal loss and (family) tragedy are big-time themes in Mastodon's music, but CtS was probably the first album really built around them (they would explore these further with follow-up albums ""The Hunter"", ""Once More 'Round the Sun"", and ""Emperor of Sand""). Musically, Mastodon stands in a league of their own. Their music is extremely intricate and heavily-layered, especially considering the band is just four guys. Seriously - I pretty much hear something new every time I re-listen to a Mastodon song. The two guitarists, Brent and Bill, are both masters of their craft, and very complimentary. Brent is the often more flashy, 'solo' guy, and Bill is the often the more grounded 'Riff Master'. You'll frequently hear them play a riff in unison, but then one of them will move up the fretboard to play the same riff slightly higher, creating a very unique harmony and sound. This technique is fairly standard in metal, but most metal bands harmonize their riffs in thirds, wheras Mastodon often uses fifths (not to get too technical). Brann grew up playing a lot of jazz, and it's super obvious in his playing. He is extremely light and busy in his touch, filling in the spaces between guitar lines with complex fills that extend over barlines and phrases, creating an sometimes-off-balance/syncopated feeling. The drums on this album also feel massive. Like, two-foot-diameter-drums-recorded-in-a-warehouse massive. You just feel the weight of every snare hit, crash, and tambourine shake, especially in songs like ""Oblivion"" and ""The Czar"". This is also the first album that Mastodon really experimented with more melodic melodies & hooks, as well as vocal harmonies. For the more vocally-attuned among you, I have good news: if you don't like one of the lead vocalists, there are two more (and a guest vocalist on the title track)! Brann, Brent, and Troy (the bassist) all share lead vocal duties, often times switching off on the same song, creating very dynamic forms, and keeping long songs that otherwise might get stale fresh. In fact, the two long songs on the album might just be my favorites (the riff/section that starts at 7:25 in ""The Czar"" is one of my all time favorite musical moments). Looking back, the creation of CtS was kind of a watershed moment for the band: this album divided Mastodon fans at the time of its release, because it went in a more proggy, melodic, spacey direction, whereas their first three albums were decidedly more thrashy/sludgy, with harsher vocals. Safe to say that the detractors lost that battle, seeing as Mastodon continued to develop this specific sound in later albums, but also kept growing and trying out new things on subsequent albums. For example, their next album, ""The Hunter"", featured an even more focused attempt at creating hooky, melodic, radio-friendly tunes (while still being heavy as shit), and that album was produced by Pop/Hip-Hop notable Mike Elizondo).
I enjoyed listening to this in LC! I actually ended up buying it iirc.
3 rose, 2 ruairi, 1 cory. nobody loses any for recommending what they like.

Who is the best gym leader and why?

two people did not understand the question and chose their high school gym teachers:
  • jamie:
    my 11th grade gym teacher, mr. schmidt
    ok
  • Ruairi
    I had a trainer in high school named Tate Hess. He was an awesome dude and taught us a lot about working out so he's my best gym leader.
    i am glad tate hess was able to make that impact on your life
Pjd:
Blue in Gen 2, his gym team was a great challenge
honestly blue remains one of the great rivals and it was a great moment to re-encounter him in GSC
bnavis:
brock, only one i could name off rip, has to be the best
bnavis is still in Mt. Moon being chased by Zubats.
rose:
Skyla. she cute
:hornyjail:
pole:
CRASH! CRASH! CRASHER WAKE!
you argue your case well.
kuhan:
Wattson from Gen 3. He's just a jovial electric gym leader. I can dig it.
I dig your pun too
cory germs:
Blaine, but mostly because Cinnabar Island is pretty badass, and fire pokemon are also badass.
Blaine definitely holds his own.
2.5 tied pjd/pole, 1 kuhan
-3 jamie, -2 ruairi, -1 bnavis

Select a cool Lego set and share the link below (https://brickset.com/sets is a good resource)

jamie:
no
a truly impressive show of defiance
Pjd:
https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/millennium-falcon-75192
a classic star wars set. combines playability, display value, and theme.
bnavis:
https://www.amazon.com/LEGO-Apollo-Saturn-Science-Building/dp/B071G3QMS2
this is neat and i would totally put this on my desk
rose:
https://brickset.com/sets/4869-1/Rahaga-Pouks
this is the bionicle you picked?
pole:
https://brickset.com/sets/3828-1/Air-Temple
I did not know they had avatar sets now. neat.
Ruairi
https://brickset.com/sets/4184-1/The-Black-Pearl
you really can't go wrong with lego pirate ships
kuhan:
https://brickset.com/sets/75192-1/Millennium-Falcon
a classic star wars set. combines playability, display value, and theme.
you and pjd are on the same wavelength here.
cory germs:
"https://brickset.com/sets/10143-1/Death-Star-II
I have selected this one because I love the concept of buying a Lego set for the Death Star II, which is famously still under construction/missing pieces."
On one hand, this death star set notably does NOT come with the minifigs and multiple movie scenes that this one does.
That said, I do appreciate the logic you have offered, and I agree that this would be an excellent display model.
3 pjd and kuhan, 2.5 ruairi, 1.5 bnavis, 1 cory
-3 jamie, -2 rose, -1 pole

share something neat about yourself that will impress us!

jamie:
i have an idetic memory but only for really useless info or inconsequential conversations
eidetic memories are neat
Pjd:
I can quote every line from Star Wars A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back
:corywoah:
bnavis:
i am a prolific mod of pokemontrades
i do not think you would make it past our vetting process
rose:
i was born 11 pounds. just a brick shithouse
:roseabsoluteunit:
pole:
as of tomorrow i am EMPLOYED
i am so proud of you that is awesome
Ruairi
My junior year of college I interned as a scout, scouting teams at SDSU and USD. Some notable names I scouted: Brhet Bewley, Heston Kjerstad, Dominic Fletcher, Tommy Wilson, and quite a few more. It was a totally awesome experience and I had a lot of fun not doing homework so I could watch college baseball instead.
this explains why you wanted dominic fletcher from me
kuhan:
Bradley Whitford follows me on twitter
ive been meaning to check out the west wing
cory germs:
I once accidentally sneezed on Leslie Odom Jr.
that seems rude. especially from the germ guy. especially if it was since march or so (I hope not!!!)
3 pole, 2 pjd, 1 ruairi
-3 bnavis, -2 cory

You are given the power of invisibility. What is the first thing you do?

you are all criminals, i don't know what i expected
  • rose:
    i mean the first thing i do is steal a lot of money. sorry it's just OBVIOUSLY that's what i'm gonna do
    at least you're (I assume) thinking bigger than the other bozos who are robbing Targets
  • jamie:
    kill some people.....steal some stuff
    why is your first thought murder
  • cory germs:
    Walk across the street to the Target and commit some grand larceny
    you picked a Target of all places?
criminals, but for the people:
  • pole:
    steal from cops
  • kuhan:
    idk steal some shit? Maybe slap around some assholes like Planned Parenthood protestors
mini-crime
  • bnavis:
    run outside without fear of being judged. also probably punch someone, see how they react
    okay, reverting back to crime at the end there
  • Ruairi
    Pull pranks on people. Make them think things are floating and what not.
    this is so basic but on the other hand you're not harming society theoretically
just vibing, and sort of committing crime under federal law I guess (as well as torts)?
  • Pjd:
    I sneak into the white house and see whats up
None of you are original. -2 to jamie, cory, and pjd

What is your favorite special effect in a movie or a show? (visual links are encouraged so we can see)

jamie:
when the disney stars would draw the mickey mouse outline
classic
Pjd:
Lens flares
always neat
bnavis:
in this scene,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttTyXqwsP0o, there's a shot of a big crowd listening to kane speak. the people listening? holes with light shining through them, to create the appearance of a moving crowd.
Never noticed that before. That's actually quite neat.
rose:
this fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVi_fs2oz3E&ab_channel=sertansensei
This is cool. You gotta appreciate all the work it must have taken to make this--very visually impressive.
pole:
Gonna go with a classic, the Star Destroyer at the beginning of Star Wars (1977)
Also classic.
Ruairi
"Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UI6yKa3q4g&ab_channel=WonderfulMovieclips The pirates turning into skeleton's is so cool and Pirates is one of my favorite movies and one of my favorite rides at Disneyland. Another scene that I love from the movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39wIHdzlJ-k&ab_channel=Musicscenes"
The PotC movies declined quickly, but the first one is so good.
kuhan:
The crazy stupid stunts that Tom Cruise does for Mission Impossible.
his stunts are crazy but perhaps you could have picked one
cory germs:
"Dolly zooms! Popularized by (invented by???) Alfred Hitchcock, in Vertigo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7YJkBcRWB8"
Very cool. I need to watch that one.
A lot of good answers here.
3.5 Cory, 3 rose/ruairi, 2 bnavis, 1 pole
-2.5 pjd, -1.5 kuhan

What is the absolute best dessert?

jamie:
best overall? chocolate milkshake. most commonly eaten? brownie or chocolate chip cookie
Pjd:
Vanilla Bean Cheesecake
bnavis:
warm pecan pie, vanilla ice cream
rose:
Anything in the custard genre, but gun to my head (i don't know why there's a gun to my head) a good creme brulee.
pole:
chocolate lava cake
Ruairi
I don't each much dessert, but I like some good cake with dank frosting
but dessert is good
kuhan:
cheesecake
cory germs:
Oreo milkshake (if you're ever in the bay area, get one from Barney's)
:coryminionnoted:
I am now hungry and these all sound delicious. Everyone gets 3.

this is your space in which you can leave another member of slack a compliment (if you are so inclined).

jamie:
digi seems like a nice young man whom you would bring home to meet your parents
Pjd:
I love all of you equally. You are all a good group of people
:blobheart:, but also cop-out
bnavis:
wharble.
this is not a compliment
rose:
bgro is one of the funniest people in the world and i am astonished by the effort and quality of the stuff he puts together on here and even if we don't deserve him i hope we have his presence back soon, he is easily the best of us. i probably value what bgro says above anybody else on slack.
bgro does not get enough credit for the stuff he puts together on slack.
pole:
I cannot restrict my compliments to just one slack member
i am interpreting this as an indirect compliment in the sense that it suggests at least two of us (unclear which 2) are deserving of a compliment
Ruairi
To everyone: You guys are all amazing and I love having all of you in my life. This has been one hell of a year, but having you guys to talk to and have fun with, has been an absolute treat.
:blobheart:; also better cop-out than pjd
kuhan:
desmond is such a great dude and i'm glad to call him my friend.
desmond is a great guy.
cory germs:
Pjd has been doing a bang-up job as an agent/fake Heyman, even including completely fabricating trade rumors.
it's been fun, but he also keeps at channeling which is a negative.
receiving points: digi, wharble, bgro, desmond, pjd, everyone, everyone
digi, wharble, bgro all get 1. pjd gets 3. everyone else gets 2. pjd loses his extra point plus one for at channeling too much, for a net of 1.

Activity: Make up a career seasonal stats page for a pretend MLB hall of fame player of your design. Feel free to go as in-depth with the stats or as surface level as you like.

jamie:
only one option for best superhero????? its thor how did you edit this IN THE MIDDLE OF ME TAKING IT TO ADD MORE QUESTIONS
it is not thor. i am taking 1 away from the superhero question.
Pjd:
Haram Bea From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Career Service Time: 17 years
Spent 14 years with the Texas Rangers before being moved to Cincinnati where he spent his final 3 years before suffering a debilitating head injury and dying on the field
Career Stats 2401 GP 9910 PA 8102 AB 1676 Runs Scored 2415 Hits 344 2B 72 3B 536 HR 1509 RBI 153 SB 1733 BB to 1710 Ks .291 AVG .977 OPS 110.2 WAR
3x MVP 15 All Star Games Triple Crown Winner
When looking at players who changed the game Haram Bea comes to mind. In an ERA where everyone did the same thing Haram changed it. His switch hitting abilities were unprecedented as he destroyed opposing pitching. What he did with the bat he could do with the glove as he was an expert fielder. Haram Bea will be remembered for uniting the world after his untimely death where he was assassinated on the field during a game in Cincinnati while meeting with young fans. The league will always remember Haram Bea. You may say their Dicks are out for him.
:o8:
bnavis:
.158/.220/.211 2 doubles 1 homer worth -1 WAR
this is the profile of a hall of fame player
rose:
Alvin Weakness: 27 years managing, 2,030 wins. World Series titles with the Orioles and Tigers. Also managed several successful Expos seasons.
I like that you thought outside the box. That said, the question did say "player."
pole:
1B Danny Millan, born 12/15/2025 in Santiago, DR, B: L, T: R. https://i.imgur.com/TJ8Z05k.png
This is awesome, very well put together. EXACTLY what I was hoping for.
Ruairi
Kyle Blake
2022: 62 games, .254/.364/.486, 13 HR, 48 RBIs
2023: 147 games, .292/.389/.562, 28 HR, 91 RBIs
2024: 155 games, .304/.402/.578, 36 HR, 114 RBIs
2025: 162 games, .327/.435/.621, 48 HR, 132 RBIs
2026: 158 games, .317/.412/.602, 42 HR, 148 RBIs
2027: 138 games, .297/.427/.578, 36 HR, 102 RBIs
2028: 145 games, .307/.448/.623, 52 HR, 154 RBIs
2029: 160 games, .348/.462/.685, 60 HR, 162 RBIs
2030: 154 games, .320/.444/.647, 54 HR, 132 RBIs
2031: 112 games, .346/.472/.622, 32 HR, 86 RBIs
2032: 147 games, .311/.438/.609, 47 HR, 123 RBIs
2033: 160 games, .372/.521/.704, 70 HR, 152 RBIs
2034: 152 games, .320/.448/.635, 57 HR, 134 RBIs
2035: 140 games, .308/.420/.587, 41 HR, 113 RBIs
2036: 152 games, .313/.404/.568, 38 HR, 108 RBIs
2037: 160 games, .297/.386/.532, 34 HR, 111 RBIs
2038: 124 games, .282/.396/.542, 28 HR, 92 RBIs
2039: 148 games, .260/.370/.508, 30 HR, 94 RBIs
2040: 104 games, .278/.378/.472, 17 HR, 69 RBIs
2041: 142 games, .282/.364/.482, 21 HR, 82 RBIs
Impressive run of power. Very graceful decline. Hell of a 2033. Curious what position he plays.
kuhan:
no.
Lame. This is the most fun question!
cory germs:
Tedward ""Ant Legs"" Macguillicudy was an American former baseball catcher who played 13 seasons with the Boston Braves (from 1917 to 1930), and one season with the Chicago Cubs (1933).
Macguillicudy was noted for his small stature, especially amongst catchers, standing only at 5'7"", 160 lbs. This frame allowed him to be a threat on the basepaths, stealing 326 bases over his 14-year career, to go along with his 87 HR's and 1,033 RBI's.
80 grade name. I like the olden setting.
3 Pole loveruairi, 1 cory/pjd
-3 kuhan and jamie, -1 bnavis

Best superhero

Everyone who put Dazzler (bnavis, rose, pole, kuhan) lost 1 for choosing a random, not very impressive, random "superhero" in a naked attempt to ride the dazzler train. Superman is cool, so Cory and Jamie did not lose points for that. Jamie, however did lose one regardless for putting Thor in the previous question as her real answer. Everyone who put Batman (Pjd and Ruairi) got 1 for choosing the best superhero.

Guilty pleasure?

jamie:
leaving other people to make mistakes because i dont have the energy to correct them
:thinking_face:
Pjd:
Lego's, i still collect a massive amount of Legos
fuck yeah
bnavis:
gossip girl
rose:
Eating expensive cheese and cured meat and crackers and charcuterie shit for dinner far too frequently.
:face_with_monocle:
pole:
ancient aliens
Ruairi
I like Nickelback. Chris Brown is an awful dude but his music is catchy (I feel guilty listening to it).
i respect the honesty.
kuhan:
Masturbation
https://imgur.com/tJaBJjl
cory germs:
""Guilty pleasures"" are a creation of a society that has been seeing a steady increase in available platforms, leading everyone to believe they hold the 'correct' opinions on pop culture - 27 Youtube Subscribers can't be wrong! You are entitled to like what you like, without even needing a second to think about how that will reflect in others views of you.
Also, ""Wildest Dreams"" by Taylor Swift"
everyone gets 2.

What is the best vacation you ever went on?

jamie:
mexico was fun
Pjd:
Irish Weekend with my friends. We went to the shore to escape the madness from the Pope coming to Philadelphia. It was irish weekend so all the bars were packed. One friend ended up in the hospital after we couldnt find him for 4 hours. He got drunk, tried to fuck some guys wife and got beat up for it. Other than that we also went crabbing, had some delicious steak dinners. I met a girl and ended up going on some nice dates with her after.
bnavis:
went to myrtle beach over winter break a few years back. didn't do much. good time.
rose:
didn't pat do this question? spending time dog sitting for my sister in san francisco, getting to just live in her apartment for a while and do nothing but eat and drink in sf all day.
He evidently did and I feel bad. I like this answer tbh.
pole:
turks & caicos, 2010. My mom became best friends with Joe Girardi.
Joe!
Ruairi
I thought we had this question on the last survey. But I'll give a different vacation just because I don't want to repeat my answer. So I went up to Tahoe a month or so ago for one of my best friends birthday. It was sick. We stayed in an air bnb, about 20 of us. I only knew about 3 people when I got there but everyone was cool and we had a great time. Hit up the lake and got in the water (it was freezing). Drank a lot. Even drank coffee (I hardly ever have coffee. I maybe have 10 cups in a year). It was awesome because I hadn't seen one of my best friends since beginning of quarantine and hadn't seen another since New Years.
I am sorry :(
kuhan:
In 2013, basically took like a month off and flew around the world. Sydney for 2 weeks (brother graduated med school), Hong Kong 3 days, Bangkok 1 day, Karachi 2 weeks (visit family), London 3 days, then back home.
I'd love to do this sometime.
cory germs:
New Zealand, September 2019. Fantastic food every single place we went, great landscapes and scenery, home of Lord of the Rings, extremely nice populace, weak dollar compared to the US (which meant everything was relatively cheap). It's at the top of my list of places I want to re-visit.
LOTR!
You all had awesome vacations, everyone gets 1.

Pitch me a cool idea.

jamie:
a slider but backwards. i call it a reverse slider! terribly stressful on the arm and not really better than a sinkescrewball though
:mindblown:
Pjd:
The Yankees winning 5 straight world series titles
I enjoy this scenario.
bnavis:
pretend we reenacted the pen scene from wolf of wall street. pretty cool right?
:bnavisaerial_tramway:
rose:
y'know how there are like yogurt drinks and stuff? Boom: drinkable hummus
:woah:
pole:
baseball but extra innings do not start with runners on second base
this is a good idea
Ruairi
So I have this idea that I've told to a few people and they thought it was stupid (which tbh I totally get their responses). Basically it's a WW2 video game (kinda like Call of Duty or Battlefield). The difference is, it is historically accurate, showing things like Pearl Harbor, Germany concentration camps, US camps for the Japanese, etc. I love history (AP US History was one of my favorite classes in high school) and I think that with how many kids/teens/people play video games now, it's a great tool to use to teach them about what really happened. Like war isn't just some game, it's scary and fucked up. Obviously this game would have to be rated M and would get flamed hard by people against it, but personally I would like to play a game like that. Then we could expand the series into the Civil War, Cold War, etc.
:neat: I wonder how it would be in practice but this is original and I dig the thinking behind it.
kuhan:
I had an idea for a TV show but then I realized it was basically just Chuck
oh okay
cory germs:
A standalone (or nearly standalone) movie set in Star Trek's mirror universe, with a simple-yet-fun plot - maybe something about space pirates??
what if it also had magical knights who use laser swords
3 ruairi, 2 rose
-3 bnavis, -2 jamie, kuhan

please share a wholesome gif for us to appreciate

jamie:
who the fuck has links of gifs saved? i have them all in my camera roll you moron
weak
Pjd:
https://images.app.goo.gl/yp7KJvyFmYtAW9hU7
incredibly wholesome but please link correctly next time
bnavis:
https://i.imgur.com/G9mQ6Q6.gifv
unsure how this is wholesome
rose:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ef/81/d9/ef81d9899f8e39146fccec17f76fc3cf.gif
Samoyeds are usually safe bets.
pole:
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5CVlJWjNuZQ/U4adf-Iy2pI/AAAAAAAAMd8/23OdAqZfdVY/s1600/dancingsox.gif
I think you may have misunderstood the question
Ruairi
https://tenor.com/view/cat-high-five-whats-up-gif-9385489
Seen it before but it's classic good cat content.
kuhan:
https://i.imgur.com/lRMu4tn.gifv
This is very wholesome.
cory germs:
Stay # blessed
https://giphy.com/gifs/peace-djSD3Q5cGHgbe
:coryraised_hands:
3 cory, 2 kuhan
-3 jamie, -2 pole

Breakfast of choice?

jamie:
kys
very rude
Pjd:
Cornbeef hash, a bacon omelette with home fries
sounds delicious
bnavis:
bagel
vague, what kind of bagel we talking?
rose:
hard to beat a bagel sandwich, but tbh just some good ol toast with jelly is 10/10
probably wouldn't be my optimal breakfast, but toast is nice.
pole:
anything with nutella
Ruairi
I don't eat breakfast, but I like Cinnamon Rolls, donuts, muffins, pancakes (french toast is better), and waffles
:anguished: breakfast is the best meal of the day possibly
kuhan:
Leftover birthday cake.
fair. hard to go wrong with that.
cory germs:
Eggs benedict, with a side of home fries. Dark chocolate mocha & a mimosa (or three) on the side.
i am not sure what else i expected from the lord of #breakfastbuds
3 cory, 2 pjd
-3 jamie, -2 ruairi

how many balls should i receive for this exercise?

Basically just gonna average it out.
jamie: none you pervert
Pjd: 69.42
bnavis: 6
rose: 6
pole: 34
Ruairi 10
kuhan: -1 because you made too many questions required
cory germs: 47
171.42/8=21.4275 balls.
I will divide that by 2 (per cory's pick) to get 10.71375. The square root of that is 3.2731865208.

if you have round topic suggestions, feel free to leave them here and I will take them into consideration when/if we resume!

I have noted all the answers. Also, several comments:
Jamie:
i thought this was going to be about fast food
:thinking:
bnavis:
bulbasaur is a shit tier starter, especially when compared to squirtle and charmander
I may have to deduct the point I awarded for question 6 :(
rose:
i do not have any suggestions, thank you for your service
:o8:
Ruairi suggested many ideas, thank you for your service ruairi. 0.5 to you.

FINAL COUNT

I did the count at the very end. Tried to be accurate.
jamie: -11
Pjd: 17
bnavis: 0.5
rose: 15.5
pole: 9
Ruairi 21
kuhan: 8.5
cory germs: 20.5
iama: 3.2731865208
digi: 1
wharble: -4
bgro: -4
desmond: -4
Dylan: -5
jori: -5
keith/glenwood/jiggy/the fucking wolf: -10
I subtracted points from former participants for lack of commitment.
submitted by IAMADeinonychusAMA to groupselect2k18

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